linzeestyle: (Default)
[personal profile] linzeestyle
 One thing that surprised me quite a bit in the responses generated off of my post about Tumblr and text-based content were the number of discussions/replies that involved some sort of admission that the person in question didn't normally reblog text posts, period, generally for "aesthetics."  It presents a bit of an interesting conundrum to me because one of the complaints I often see when other platforms are suggested for fan-use (particularly DW) is that they are unwieldy, uncustomizable, and generally unattractive.  Appearance really does seem to be built into the current fandom experience at the base level -- but it isn't just a statement of personality; it's actively molding fandom itself.  Of course a text-based post announcing, say, a fanfic, isn't going to do well if it's only getting "likes" because text-based posts "ruin aesthetic;" of course drabbles, meta and discussion will always have a limited role in an environment where the visual is privileged because the goal is not to cultivate discussion, content or interaction, but beauty and appearance, regardless of repetition.  Of course, on the other hand, one of the other common concerns I saw was the extent to which fanfic writers are impossible to follow because no one wants to follow a writer only to get "the same reblog another 70 times" on their dash -- which is fair, but again: if the only thing considered fit to reblog in the first place is visual, doesn't this by its very nature set a potential text based/writing tumblr up to fail from the start?  

Ah well, at any rate.  In an effort to combat this I'm going to try only posting to Tumblr fic that are "worth the effort:" that is, large enough to justify the creation of image-sets that fit Tumblr's aesthetic desires.  If we're thinking of Tumblr in terms of a fandom RSS feed, there isn't much point to crossposting in an environment where you know the majority of the audience views what you're crossposting as visually unattractive/unsuited for their own "feed;" it certainly limits Tumblr's value as a tool of engagement with/advertising within fandom.  In all other cases, as several other responses to that post suggested, it appears that there isn't very much crossover between Tumblr and AO3 in terms of fic-seeking to begin with.  

Speaking of fic!  I posted my first Great Unknown Challenge Drabble, "In The Absence of Affection."  SPN, Dean/Castiel, Explicit.  I think this is my version of all of those tongue-in-cheek (or not!) 1989-song title-challenges surrounding Taylor Swift's last album -- I want to produce a ficlet for every song on Rob Thomas' new CD.  I haven't decided if the goal is for them to be (a) all one fandom and (b) a connected story, but that's what writing the second one is for.  I'm drawn to the idea of a Little Bit of Everything, but to be honest I'm deliberately taking a bit of a break from the Marvel fandom, right now.  The sudden rush of optimism/insistence that Stucky Can And Will Be Canon feels so, so similar to the back half of SPN S8 (likely due to the fact it seems that some of the same people are involved in leading this charge) and the idea of going through another fandom implosion when the Stucky fandom realizes they're buying from snake oil salesmen isn't something I'm ready for.  This, I think, is another aspect of Tumblr Meta that I'm not a fan of.  The lack of a cohesive space for discussion makes it far, far easier for well-crafted words and seductive optimism to blindside a lot of people, and there are a surprising number of fans who have "made their name," so to speak, in fandoms by appearing on the scene with meta that says exactly what fans want to hear, when they need to hear it most.  I can't help but wonder if this phenomenon would still take off in an environment where discussion of meta was, well, possible first of all, but also all contained in a single space - where fans could actually think and talk through what's being said in a post, and have fen other than the OP replying with some regularity.  

...none of which was what I intended to talk about, but -- oh.  Marvel.  Yes.  I really do fear an explosion once Civil War comes out, particularly given some of the intense anger towards the Russos I'm already seeing at Sharon's inclusion on "Team Cap."  And I, being a perfectly reasonable person, have apparently decided to deal with this by sticking my fingers in my ears and crawling back to the hollowed out shell that is the remains of Destiel, post-S8 firefight.  Hey: once the explosion has already occurred, it's unlikely you're going to get completely swallowed up in it twice, right?

Don't answer that question.  I've been in the SPN fandom at varying levels since the show started; I know exactly how often you can go running back into that burning building (the answer: idk, how many lives do Winchesters have?).  

Date: 30 Aug 2015 10:00 am (UTC)
elij_0650: identity? (Default)
From: [personal profile] elij_0650
I followed you here from tumblr but it is a while since I have pursued fanfic. Life has been rather lumpy and I am only now taking time to do enjoyable things like catching up on films & TV so I haven't seen so many of the things people are writing fics for (incl. SPN)

Aesthetic is not the driving force for internet consumption, but I do find Tumblrs repeating of posts very irritating. Hopefully I can offer conversation and feedback on you fics once I am caught up.

heers
EliJ

Date: 30 Aug 2015 08:22 pm (UTC)
featheredshadow: (Default)
From: [personal profile] featheredshadow
Like you, I think the MCU fandom (especially the Steve/Bucky part of it) is in for a nasty surprise once Civil War comes out. Sure, the relationship between Steve & Bucky will still be (or at least I like to think so) an important, meaningful part of the movie, but that's it: just a (one) part. Not more.

I personally started leaving the fandom (can't really stand the wank anymore) and I'm really glad Dawn of Justice will be coming a few weeks earlier, it will be easier to stay in this corner than dealing with the wank that will arise once Civil War is out.

Also, another issue I have with the whole thing is the behavior of some comics fans. I don't count you in obviously because you're very... cool? laid back? about your comics knowledge but some other fans are really grating and it's kinda spoiling the mood in my opinion.

Anyway, I wish you good luck on moving from tumblr to dreamwidth. I personally spent my formative fandom years on ffnet (and mostly only in the Harry Potter fandom), only to come to tumblr a few years ago, so LJ (and dreamwidth) is not something I'm used to. Different fan experiences, I guess, but it's sure LJ (and therefore dreamwidth) makes it easier to have discussions than tumblr.

(As for the exchange/research of fics between AO3 and tumblr... depends on what people are looking for, I guess. I'm an avid reader so I lurk on AO3 for the fics, and I stick to tumblr for the pretty images, mostly.)

(I'm one of your followers on tumblr by the way, bl*ckw*d*wsr*dl*dg*r, trying to keep some "anonymity" on there, not that it actually really matters in the grand scheme of things...)

Date: 31 Aug 2015 07:26 am (UTC)
featheredshadow: (Default)
From: [personal profile] featheredshadow
Yeah, I remember about Destiel in the SPN fandom during season 8 (I left at the end of it), as I wasn't a fan of the pairing, the behavior of the fans was really super annoying (no offense intended). It's half the reason why I left, the other being the writing of the show...
Anyway, yes, apparently a huge chunk of the SPN fandom moved over to the MCU fandom and it's re-creating a very negative (dare I even say: toxic) environment once again... I don't understand why people keep thinking Steve/Bucky will really be canon in the movie, and why so many people are suddenly angry at Sharon's existence. After TWS, it was a given she would be in Cap 3. But I think the main problem comes from the fact the writers (or whoever else) decided to go with the Civil War storyline... it shouldn't have happened in a Captain America movie, I think. It feels like they shoehorning the main characters of the MCU in a single character-lead franchise, and it comes at the price of the development of the secondary characters of said franchise, ie. Sam and especially Sharon.
Also honestly, my interesting for the movie is already weaning away, with all the wank and the hatred everywhere, it's really hard to keep my excitation for it, and once again the fandom isn't helping... Better to step back a little until it's out, I think.

I agree with you that 2015 was very disappointing in terms of MCU movies. AoU was really a huge disappointment for me (and I don't think I'm the only one) and Ant-Man, well... I wasn't interested in it so I didn't watch it. (No "brand loyalty" with me here.) I don't think the MCU is on a good stride right now, and I'm not sure next year is gonna change it: DC is lauching its universe with Dawn of Justice and Suicide Squad, and Civil War already has a lot of wank surrounding it, and I'm not even talking Doctor Strange... I'm not so sure the MCU really has the upper hand anymore. They've been under a lot of (justified) criticisms lately.

Tumblr is not very good for text-based fandoms activities I think. It's easy to exchange pretty pictures and so on, but as far as writing goes, well, that's not the best place. It's easier to exchange on a platform like LJ or dreamwidth (like I'm currently doing lol).

Date: 31 Aug 2015 12:58 am (UTC)
dragonscrawl: (Default)
From: [personal profile] dragonscrawl
Tumblr lurker coming out of the woodwork.

I definitely agree with you re: trying to temper MCU fandom's Stucky expectations. There's also my feeling that since I'm not a big Tumblr user, by the time I actually took a look at MCU fandom on Tumblr the expectations were already so big that even if I tried to be a voice of reason, I feel like it would just be shouting into the void. Especially since right now we don't actually know that much about CW, so every time the smallest detail comes out it turns into what might be counted as overanalysis towards any given fan's specific fan tastes.

On the comics front, and I'm not sure if it's because the MCU is the first big comics movie fandom in the age of social media or just the first big ongoing comics movie series that really sparks this "but in the comics it was thus-and-so and should also be so in the movies" type of tension between the comics side of Marvel fandom and movie-only Marvel fandom, some parts of the MCU fandom might need to go back and look at the way Hollywood movie adaptations of books (off the top of my head, Lord of the Rings/The Hobbit or The Chronicles of Narnia might be good examples) never 100% match the books since ultimately the same is true between the comics and the MCU.

Date: 1 Sep 2015 08:42 pm (UTC)
handypolymath: (cigar)
From: [personal profile] handypolymath
I'm not familiar with the SPN example, but even without that, fandom has (repeatedly) been through this cycle of inflated and dashed hopes before and it still confuses me. I never expect the source material to hew 1:1 with my hopes, expectations, curiosities or concerns. I expect it to come close, to have some hooks, and to be a jumping off pad for what I'm really in it for--the meta and the fic, and other creative fan output.

I've come to realize I'm *in fandom* because canon is both intriguing and a rough fit and it provokes my analytical and creative responses to tailor and expand and veer off into the big beautiful vistas that are only matte paintings in the source material.

I've dipped my toe into Tumblr recently because it seemed DW/LJ had gone dead while my fannishness was fallow. And lo, I did find some folk I could talk to! But not in that space; supplementation and cross-pollination between platforms is the name of the game, and I feel like I lucked out in finding this conversation in the first place.

Date: 16 Sep 2015 12:13 pm (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
I know I'm really late on this conversation and you don't know me from apple, but I've been reading a couple of your posts here, missing your presence on Tumblr, and I'm really sorry the original anon ask I sent you over there ended up in such a bad place for you. Not that either of us said anything wrong, but sigh, Tumblr is just so negative all the time. They take everything so personally and harshly, and get it so twisted. I mean fandoms have always had varying degrees of negativity, but Tumblr... needs more reasonable and chill people.

As for Steve/Bucky... YES. I'm baffled by this sudden canon expectation. At least what happened in Planet Hulk partially killed that thought. They were SO SURE it was gonna be canon there and then surprise surprise - NOPE! I reckon Captain America White will be more of the same. I hope it will make them realize the reality of things. I still dread the reaction to the Civil War movie. They're gonna be so nasty about Sharon/Steve, and bitter over Bucky/Steve, and the worse is that they start hating on Sharon and female love interests and disrespecting "rival" ships and it's just so embarrassing. I wish I could find more rational fans who just enjoy what's there and dream about the potential in our fantasies.

Sometimes I feel like speaking up over there about this issue in the Steve/Bucky fandom, but I'm so afraid I'm gonna get eaten alive by anything I say, and everyone will block me and I won't be able to reblog or like or do anything anymore. Then again, what would I really lose? Maybe I should just hop on over here.

Date: 19 Sep 2015 12:15 pm (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
I'm pretty sure I know which people you're talking about. It's a shame, because their blogs otherwise have other content that interests me, but ever since they started the canon crusade, forget it. There is no reasoning with anyone anymore. NOT EVEN PLANET HULK STOPPED THEM. IDGI! The idea of these people thinking that Steve's gonna come to terms with his "romantic" Bucky feelings during CA:White when Bucky's literally like 14/15 in that story to Steve's 20/21. I cannot deal.

I understand people who've never experienced a fandom before getting roped into this kind of misplaced and unrealistic hope, but people who've been in fandoms before and know what it's like? IDGI? How do they not learn the reality of how it all works by now?

I just. I get bitter about this, because I feel like it's ruining the fandom. I just want to enjoy these two without fandom getting entitled and delusional. If there's anything that surely ruins a fandom it's this. It never fails. I expect everything to go to hell after Civil War tbh. Because I, too, expect the Cap creative team to do a good job with Steve/Sharon, and that's just gonna make the fandom madder, which yikes. I get the frustration of not seeing your ships be canon, but that's the price you pay for actively seeking out a pair that is not canon and has no chance of being so. You can be bitter about it all you want (though I prefer to enjoy what we get and dream?), but don't show your nasty? Please don't hate the ladies? Or any other character that gets close to half your pairing? It's so shameful.

I can't blame you for not making that post, because I haven't either for stated reasons. That's the thing about Tumblr, although tbf, I've seen this behaviour outside of Tumblr too. I think, unfortunately, it's just an online thing - the extremism where things are black and white and there's no room for grey. But yes, it's not conducive to any kind of reasonable conversation at all unless you agree with the hive-mind.

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